Senator the Hon Anne Ruston
Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care
Shadow Minister for Sport
Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate

TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW WITH STEPHEN CENATIEMPO, 2CC
21 February 2024

Topics: Aged care workforce shortfall, Labor’s approach to staffing mandates

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Aged care is facing a gap of nearly 6000 nurses by 2024-25 — well, 5918 to be specific — which is an improvement of only 44 from government forecasts during the December quarter. And according to an analysis from The Australian, a further seven aged care facilities closed in the three months to December. Basically, the new stringent nursing reforms placing intense strain on the sector. This is something that I’ve been talking about for quite some time. To discuss this with us, we’re joined by the Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care, Senator Anne Ruston. Senator, good morning.

ANNE RUSTON: Good morning, Stephen.

CENATIEMPO: The Government’s got two problems here that aren’t necessarily of its own making and largely driven by the - Well, there’s two problems. Firstly, the recommendations of the Aged Care Royal Commission. And secondly, the fact that you can’t just snap your finger and make more nurses.

RUSTON: Well, I wouldn’t disagree with you that those are two very clear issues that are before Australia at the moment. But when you’re in government, you’re actually charged with trying to do things to actually make a difference through your policy. And we’ve seen this government put in place policies that have actually exacerbated the problem. As you rightly pointed out, an improvement of 44 nurses in 5,918 barely even warrants a comment as improvement. This is all because this government has been absolutely rigid about enforcing the requirements, or the recommendations, of the Royal Commission at a time they knew they had a workforce crisis. I mean, you can’t make something happen that just doesn’t exist. It’s a bit like, you know, if the government said the sun wasn’t supposed to come up this morning, I reckon it probably would. And so, the Government turning around and saying we need 6,000 nurses to meet aged care requirements that they’ve put in place when there are no nurses out there is equally likely not going to be able to happen. And as a result, we see nursing homes close.

CENATIEMPO: But surely you’re not suggesting that if you were in Government, you wouldn’t have accepted the recommendations of the Royal Commission.

RUSTON: Well, what I would have said if I was in Government, and I hope one day that I have the opportunity to be there, is you have to be flexible, to understand the conditions that are before us. And if there is a shortage in a particular workforce area - and right now there’s a shortage across the whole of the care workforce, whether that’s general practitioners, nurses or other care workers - You have to put in place different provisions to provide the same outcome. I mean, nobody wants older Australians not to get the care and support that they need. Of course we do. But, you know, if you don’t have a registered nurse, maybe there is a greater role for enrolled nurses to play, maybe there’s a greater role for allied health to play, maybe there’s a greater role for technology to play. There’s a whole heap of things that this government could have looked at to try and deliver the care that the Royal commission said that older Australians should have, and nobody disagrees with that.

CENATIEMPO: Yeah, but having said that, I mean, these are issues that the aged care sector have been telling us about for years, perhaps decades. And the Royal Commission still made the recommendations that it did anyway. And, and I use an example. There was one example that I, that I’ve used several times, and I may have even talked to you about it in the past, is a small, aged care facility in the town of Denman in the Hunter Valley. Now, it’s too small to actually have its own registered nurse full time on staff. And they’ve always said, we’re not going to be able to afford to do that. But right next door is a - I think they call them multi-function facilities. It’s a state government medical facility that has a registered nurse 24 hours a day that can walk next door anytime they need one. Now, that kind of flexibility is required. But the Royal Commission didn’t actually allow for that in its recommendations.

RUSTON: Well, the two things I’d say is that the recommendations of the Royal Commission were a guide to how we need to make sure older Australians receive their care and make sure that they receive a standard of care that I think we all agree they should receive. But there are innovative things that will happen since the Royal Commission. We’re constantly innovating about how we provide services, technologies that we can use, but the thing that I say about this Government is that even the Royal Commission recognised that there was going to be a timeframe in order to put some of these things in place. This government rushed that and brought that timeframe forward in the middle of a workforce crisis, which has exacerbated the problem. But you’re exactly right - we need to look at how we can deliver that care, and if that means using the hospital that’s next door, the clinic that’s next door, to provide these services - as long as older Australians are getting the services they need, I think we need to be a bit more flexible. Often in rural and regional areas, they don’t have the kind of scope of access that you have in metropolitan areas, which makes it so much more difficult.

CENATIEMPO: Yeah, and in the meantime places, as you say, places are closing and that is a problem. Anne, I appreciate your time this morning.

RUSTON: Thank you.

ENDS