SENATOR THE HON ANNE RUSTON

SHADOW MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGED CARE

DEPUTY LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE

SENATOR FOR SOUTH AUSTRALIA

TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW WITH JASON MATTHEWS 4BC

Topics: Home care waiting lists and underspending; aged care assessment algorithm; hospital bed pressures; economy and cost of living.

E&OE……………………………………

JASON MATTHEWS: Now, this was billed as a once-in-a-generation reform, but a year after the Albanese government promised to fix our aged care system, a new report paints a horrible picture of a broken safety net. And I get so many emails and texts about aged care from frustrated Australians, people from Brisbane waiting and just waiting and waiting and waiting to get any sort of care.

More than 6,400 older Australians died while waiting for approved care in the last financial year. I've heard those stories as well. We've brought them to you on 4BC. And adding insult to injury, it was revealed in Senate estimates that $1.4 billion of the aged care budget was left completely unspent while more than 106,000 vulnerable Aussies continue to languish, continue to wait on waiting lists.

Joining us now to discuss this unfolding crisis is the Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care, Anne Ruston. Good morning to you, Anne.

SENATOR RUSTON: Good morning, Jason.

JASON MATTHEWS: How have we got into a situation in this country where 6,400 Australians die waiting for care that they've already been approved for?

SENATOR RUSTON: Well, quite simply, the government is rationing the care. So they are withholding care from older Australians that they already know need the care, because it's the government that assesses the care needs of older Australians. And as you rightly pointed out in your introduction, $1.4 billion has been saved in aged care. And that's not in a year; that's just in nine months.

So we're talking about a huge amount of money that's being saved in aged care while the government is purposely leaving older Australians without packages. I think every older Australian and their family should be outraged by this.

JASON MATTHEWS: So how is that possible? Are you suggesting that this is a cost-cutting exercise, and how can they possibly execute that? The reason I ask is that I get so many people writing to me and talking to me here at 4BC about having been approved. Their funding has been approved, but they're just waiting to hear from aged carers. So could it be a combination of government and also not enough aged carers out there?

SENATOR RUSTON: Well, I think it is largely the government's decision that they're not going to allocate the packages. Because what happens is somebody goes through the My Aged Care assessment process and they're told, 'You need a level-whatever package.' But then they're told, in most instances, 'Your priority is only standard,' which means that people could be left waiting seven, eight, nine, sometimes more than 12 months before the funding is actually given to that package.

So we can't be expecting our aged care providers to do anything until they are given the money to be able to deliver the services. So really, the lion's share of this is actually a problem of the government's own making.

JASON MATTHEWS: Well, we had someone call me a couple of weeks ago. Two years—two years since they had been approved. And thank goodness for people like Henry Pike, who got onto it for us and got it sorted, but they'd been waiting for two years to get any sort of at-home care. It was ridiculous.

Talk to us about the algorithm-based assessment tool they're using. Apparently, it's unfair and unreasonable, with advocates calling it Robodebt 2.0. It seems to me we're taking the humans out of assessing our older Australians and leaving it to AI to work out what is needed and what level of care is needed.

SENATOR RUSTON: Well, that's exactly what the government has done. They've got an algorithm that not only decides what your care needs are, but what your priority for receiving that care is. We put a bill through the Senate that everybody apart from the Labor Party voted for. So it got through the Senate to say human override must be reinstated, so that when the person who's putting the information into the algorithm goes, 'Gee, that result is so wrong. This person needs so much more care than the algorithm has said that they need,' they've got the ability to actually push a button and say, 'Actually, no, that's wrong.'

The government wouldn't accept that. And then last week, the Ombudsman came out and said that the algorithm is unreasonable, it's a black box where nobody knows what's going on, and there wasn't consultation. We had the Inspector-General of Aged Care a couple of months ago saying that these reforms, particularly the algorithm, are not just failing older Australians; they're actually causing harm. And the government still refuses to listen.

JASON MATTHEWS: Okay, so the government claims they are reducing wait times for high-priority cases, but clearly the system is failing thousands. If you guys were in power, if the Coalition were in power right now, what immediate steps would you take to get this $1.4 billion out the door and into the homes of people who desperately need it?

SENATOR RUSTON: Well, I mean, all you have to do is, with a stroke of a pen, get that $1.4 billion out the door. I mean, right now the government's giving people packages at 60% of the level that they've been assessed as needing.

We'd actually got wait times and waiting lists down significantly. When the government first came into power four and a half years ago, we had aged care wait times down to three months. Now, I know that's still too long, but they were seriously a lot, lot lower. And the waiting list was about 28,000 people, which, I agree, is still too many, but a hell of a lot better than the 250,000 who are either waiting to get assessed, waiting for a package, or only have a 60% package.

So I think we proved previously that we could get the waiting list down, but this government, by its own actions, has purposely allowed the waiting list to blow out.

JASON MATTHEWS: It's incredible. And of course, then we have our bed-block issues in our public hospitals, where we can't get sick people into beds because we've got aged care recipients in those beds, and we're not building enough aged care as well. It's an absolute mess.

SENATOR RUSTON: Well, absolutely. As you said in your introduction, we're one year on from these so-called once-in-a-generation aged care reforms. And of course we want reform, but there is no reform going on here. In fact, older Australians right now are waiting longer, they're getting less and they're paying more. And that is what these reforms have delivered.

Twelve months ago, older Australians were waiting a shorter time, they were getting more and were paying less than they are today. And even back then, they were paying a whole heap more than they were when this government came into power.

The Albanese Labor Government needs to explain to older Australians why they are using them as some sort of cash cow to prop up Jim Chalmers' budget bottom line. Because I'd say $1.4 billion saved in aged care when we've got a crisis seems to me a pretty cruel thing to be doing.

JASON MATTHEWS: Anne Ruston, I'd love to ask the Prime Minister, but he's in the Caribbean at the moment, whilst Jim Chalmers will be facing the media tomorrow when we no doubt, sadly, have a quarter-of-a-percentage-point interest rate hike. It's good timing from the PM, isn't it?

SENATOR RUSTON: Well, I mean, of course I understand the Prime Minister has to attend international fora around the world. That's part of his job. But the other part of his job is actually making sure the Australian economy is functioning and Australians aren't feeling the debt crisis that he has piled on them through his inflation. So I'd say it's fine for him to go overseas, but don't you reckon you should do your job here at home first before you go?

JASON MATTHEWS: A lot of my listeners think about that as well and agree with you on that. Anne Ruston, you need to put pressure on the government about our aged care crisis. I get so much feedback on this. And it's one of the biggest issues facing our older Australians every single day. And what's not happening is disgusting. Anne Ruston, appreciate your time. Take up the fight, could you? I appreciate it. Thank you.

SENATOR RUSTON: I absolutely will.

JASON MATTHEWS: There she goes, the Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care. It is sad, the stuff that we hear, and look, I appreciate it.

ENDS