SENATOR THE HON ANNE RUSTON
SHADOW MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGED CARE
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS
SHADOW MINISTER FOR SPORT
DEPUTY LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE

TRANSCRIPT

ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING WITH PATRICIA KARVELAS
21 November 2025

Topics: New Medicare data exposing Anthony Albanese’s broken promises, Liberal leadership, negotiations on environmental reforms

PATRICIA KARVELAS: The latest quarterly Medicare data doesn’t tell a good story for the Government, with the rate of bulk billing the same as this time last year at 77.6%. Now, the total number of GP services has fallen by about 10,000 a day, and average out-of-pocket costs have ticked over $50 for the first time. The Shadow Health Minister is Anne Ruston, and she joins me. Anne Ruston, welcome.

ANNE RUSTON: Thanks, PK.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: So these quarterly figures do show bulk billing rates are unimproved from a year ago, but they are stagnant. They haven’t gotten worse, and also it doesn’t count the new bulk billing incentives. They won’t show up until next quarter. So do you concede that this investment needs to take time to actually show up in the figures?

ANNE RUSTON: Well, we’ve had a government that’s been out there making promises to Australians for the last three and a half years about what their experience would be when they went to visit their family doctor. You know, telling them that all they’ll need is their Medicare card, when quite frankly, the Government has always known that out-of-pocket costs were on the rise and likely to continue to rise into the future. So, I think, you know, an eleven percent drop in bulk billing in three and a half years. As you say, nearly a million less visits to a doctor year on year, for the same quarter last year to this year. That’s, as you say, ten thousand visits less every day. So that’s ten thousand people avoiding seeing their doctor, which means they’re likely to be sicker before they actually engage with the health system. And at the same time, we’ve got a Prime Minister who can’t negotiate the hospital funding agreement, as we’ve seen over recent days, which is where these people are ending up because inevitably they’re sicker before they actually engage with the health system.

PATRICIA: Do you acknowledge, though, that bulk billing rates will go up?

ANNE RUSTON: Well, of course we want to see they Australians — [interrupted].

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And they will right, cause that’s the plan?

ANNE RUSTON: Well, we’ve seen a lot of plans that haven’t worked in the past, Patricia. But of course we want to see Australians getting timely and affordable access to primary care. Nothing could be more important. What we are being critical of the Government for is that they made a whole heap of promises leading into the election. We found out after the election they already knew that they weren’t true. I mean, the Department of Health has belled the cat on this, saying that they knew that the impact of their changes were likely to be sort of three or four years into the future after the next election, and they conceded that they were expecting out of pocket costs to continue to go up. So, you can’t say one thing in the lead up to the election and then get called out after the election and not apologise for the fact that they blatantly lied to Australians.

PATRICIA: At the election, you matched a lot of the Government’s commitments on health and it was clearly a strategy of the Liberal Party to just kind of neutralise health because Labor was running so hard on it. Lots of things are under review we keep hearing. Is all of that matching also under review?

ANNE RUSTON: Well, the one thing that we are absolutely committed to going forward is making sure that we focus on Australians getting access, timely access to affordable primary care, because that seems to be one of the most fundamental areas where our health system is falling down at the moment. And the reason that we’re seeing ramping and we’re also seeing in aged care, you know, older Australians in hospital beds when they shouldn’t be there. They should be at home getting home care packages, but the Government is refusing to release home care packages. So we’re very, very focused on making sure that we are delivering care to Australians that they need, when they need it, where they need it, and that’ll be the focus of our policy development going forward.

PATRICIA: Okay, but you’ve also talked about smaller government, not as much spending. So, how does that fit in with all of that? Is this an area that should be quarantined?

ANNE RUSTON: Look, access to affordable health care could not be more important because the reality of this whole discussion is that the most important thing — a healthy Australia is a productive Australia, and that’s obviously in the best interest of the whole of Australia, the economy and Australians. So I think, you know, focusing on making sure that we’ve got a healthy Australia and that Australians have access to the kind of health care to keep them healthy is not just good for them, but it’s actually good for the economy as well.

PATRICIA: Now I just want to change the topic if you don’t mind, because in a moment I’m pretty excited that I’m going to be able to speak to the new Liberal leader in New South Wales, elected today as you know. She’s a leading moderate woman. So I’m really interested to hear your perspective on one of her critiques, which is that the mess that the Federal Liberal Party has been in has actually damaged her party and their brand. Do you agree that that’s what’s happened?

ANNE RUSTON: Well, look, I first of all want to absolutely congratulate Kellie. I think she’ll do an outstanding job as the leader and I wish her all the best, because it is a big job right around Australia to make sure that we are providing, whether it be the state oppositions or as the Federal Opposition, a credible alternative to the governments that I, quite frankly, think are doing a terrible job and that includes the Federal Government and the one in New South Wales. But it was quite clear, we had a catastrophic result at the federal election and we do need to settle the ship and move on. But one thing that I can absolutely commit to Kellie and to Jess in Victoria as well is that I will be doing everything that I can to support them in their endeavours to make sure that they are providing a really strong alternative to the people of New South Wales and Victoria, and here in South Australia.

PATRICIA: They go to the polls before, of course, you do again. And so, when you’re having the fights that you’re having at a federal level, do you agree that it hurts them?

ANNE RUSTON: Look, in the Liberal Party, I suppose one of our strengths and one of our weaknesses is that we encourage a broad range of views to be debated in relation to policy and that should never stop into the future. But what we need to do is to make sure that once we’ve had those debates and those differences of ideas have been put on the table that we move forward. And that’s what we’re doing right now in the case of energy policy, because the one thing that we all absolutely agree on is that every time we’re out in the electorate, the first thing that people tell us is their difficulty in paying their power bills, and when you speak to business, the first thing they tell you is that their financial viability is being undercut because they can’t afford their power bills. So, I think that’s the important thing is that we make the policy and then we move on in a united way to make sure that Australians understand we’ve got their back when it comes to energy policy.

PATRICIA: Your two biggest states, Victoria and New South Wales, have elected moderate women to lead the party. Should your federal colleagues reflect on that message?

ANNE RUSTON: Look, I’m obviously really excited to see in this case the three incredibly capable, competent women who are leading the party nationally and in Victoria and in New South Wales. And as I said, you know, I believe that it’s absolutely my total responsibility to support every single one of them, as I do my male colleagues around the country, to make sure that we’re providing an alternative option for Australians.

PATRICIA: But the question I asked, with respect, is does this send a message? Because there are some — I’ve spoken to people who are losing support for your leader, Sussan Ley. Should they look at these models and think twice?

ANNE RUSTON: Look, I think Sussan Ley’s doing an incredible job leading our party. You know, she’s been very strong and she’s out there selling a really important policy that I think Australians are receiving very well and that is focusing on making sure they’ve got affordable power. So I think Sussan’s doing a great job and I think she will continue to lead our party as we develop our policies, because that’s the most important thing is talking to Australians about the things that matter to them and to their lives. And so, I think she’s doing a great job of that and will continue to do so.

PATRICIA: Yeah, but you still haven’t addressed my question — like that this model of a woman who is more moderate should be a leader. As your colleagues consider potentially rolling Sussan Ley, should they look at that as a success model?

ANNE RUSTON: Look, I don’t think anybody should be looking at rolling Sussan Ley. I think she’s doing an exceptional job. And it’s a really tough time for our party. I mean, we had a tough election and it’s always tough after an election loss like we’ve just had. And so, I’d be saying to everybody the most important thing that we can do as the Coalition, the Liberal Party and National Party in coalition, is actually focusing on the Australian people and what they need and what they want and stop talking about ourselves because the Australian public deserves better than that.

PATRICIA: Two fast questions, cause I’ve got Kellie Sloane waiting and I don’t want to make her wait for long and you’d agree with that. But this one — net zero by 2050, your party’s officially dumped it, but that is fundamental to the Paris Agreement which you want to stay in. Do you agree with that?

ANNE RUSTON: Look, obviously, if we are able to achieve net zero, it would be a very, very welcome outcome. But what we’ve said in our policy development is that we want to make sure that affordable power for Australian families and businesses takes primacy over everything because that is the critical issue before us at the moment. But, of course, the fact that we are staying in the Paris Agreement and maintain those sorts of commitments going forward is very, very welcome because I think it sends a very strong message that we’re serious about emissions reduction.

PATRICIA: And do you want to be the party that negotiates a deal with the Government on these environment laws next week?

ANNE RUSTON: Well, obviously, we always want to be constructive when it comes to dealing with the Government on any policy, but it’s not our job to make a bad bill slightly better. It’s our job to make sure that when we negotiate legislation that we’re delivering an outcome that we honestly believe is going to be in the best interest of Australia. Right now, the bill before us we don’t believe is, but if the Government’s prepared to make the changes that we need, and they’re quite substantial changes, then of course it would be positive if we were able to get a good piece of legislation through the Parliament.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Anne Ruston, thank you.

ANNE RUSTON: My pleasure.

ENDS