TRANSCRIPT
ABC RADIO NATIONAL BREAKFAST WITH SALLY SARA
3 December 2025
Topics: The Prime Minister’s failure to negotiate a new hospital funding deal, Labor’s aged care crisis, Reynolds and Brown case, Liberal election review, immigration policy
E&OE…………………………………
SALLY SARA: Anne Ruston is the Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and joins me now. Senator, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
ANNE RUSTON: Good morning, Sally.
SALLY SARA: We still don't have a deal on hospital funding, with State and Territory leaders locked in negotiations with the Commonwealth. Has the Federal Government missed the chance to get a deal done by the end of the year in your view?
ANNE RUSTON: Well, they already missed the chance of doing the deal when they should have because we should have had a deal in place by the middle of this year, 2025, and they failed to negotiate that agreement. And we are getting very, very close to Christmas. There doesn't seem to be any movement if you listen to the reports that are coming out of the States and Territories around the negotiations. So yes, I am very, very concerned that we seem to be no closer to securing agreement with the States and Territories.
And I think the really concerning part of this is that the Government has actually tied new disability programs like Thriving Kids to the deal in relation to the hospital funding agreement. So, it not only leaves Australians who are looking to our health system with great uncertainty, but people who live with disability with great uncertainty. So, this is a very, very concerning situation for us to find ourselves in less than seven months out from this agreement having to be in place.
SALLY SARA: So, with no deal the existing arrangements get rolled over for another 12 months. Is that reasonable to buy more time to get a good outcome?
ANNE RUSTON: Well, you can't just keep on buying more time at the same time as providing great uncertainty to our hospital systems. They need the ability to be able to plan into the future, because if they keep on living hand to mouth and not knowing what their deal is for 2026-27 when we're seven months out – I mean, they've got staff, they've got purchasing, they've got patients to consider. And all we're seeing is because of this uncertainty, we're seeing elective surgeries put off, we're seeing ramping increasing, and we're seeing our emergency departments overrun.
And at the same time, we're seeing this crisis in aged care where older Australians are actually locked in beds in hospitals because the Government has actually rationed care for aged care, which is a Federal Government responsibility. So it's actually ended up being this vicious cycle where basically older Australians, Australian patients and people with disability are all paying the price for the failure of the Albanese Government to do it's job.
SALLY SARA: Do you think that the bed block when it comes to aged care patients in public hospitals, do you expect that to ease as the aged care reforms continue to roll out?
ANNE RUSTON: Well, it appears as if they are only going to get worse. Because we know that despite the release of a number of packages that the Government was forced kicking and screaming to release a few months ago when we put the Aged Care Amendment Act through the Parliament, because they have rationed care for so long – they’ve basically been rationing care since they came into government in 2022 – our wait lists have blown out in numbers and time. And even by their own reckoning, reports are suggesting that there will be at least 60,000 people on the Priority Waiting List even after these 83,000 packages have been released. We know that residential providers are not building any beds. Despite needing 10,000 new beds every year for the next ten years, this year 578 aged care beds came online. I mean, we have a crisis in residential care and in home care that is the making of this government.
SALLY SARA: Senator, yesterday the Government was questioned in Estimates about its handling of the Brittany Higgins matter, in particular the cost of defending a Fair Work case which was launched by former Defence Minister Linda Reynolds and her then-Chief of Staff Fiona Brown. That was over incorrect accusations they'd been involved in a political cover up. What are your concerns about the Government's defense in this matter?
ANNE RUSTON: Well, we've seen two superior courts in this land come down with findings that neither former Senator Reynolds or Fiona Brown acted in any way apart from appropriately in their handling of a sexual assault case that happened in this building. And yet despite those courts finding no wrongdoing, the Government is still pursuing both women, both very capable women, who've had their lives basically ruined over these false allegations. And despite that and the women having no real resources in which to fight back, the Government has got this highly, highly paid legal team fighting these women. And the significance of this is the mental and physical implications of this for these two women are very high and the Government seems to have no intention of backing down whatsoever.
SALLY SARA: Isn't it reasonable for the Government to use its resources at its disposal and to defend the case?
ANNE RUSTON: The Federal Government has a responsibility of being a model litigant and that means that they can't use the weight of the power and resources of an organisation the size of the Commonwealth Government to out-resource, in the case of Fiona Brown, somebody who can't even afford to pay for her legal team. She's actually got them pro bono because she can't afford to pay. And so, they're using the might of the Commonwealth, which has got limitless resources. They are using barristers, some of the highest barristers in the land in terms of how much they are paid, to push back against two women, in one case who has no resources at all, and the other one who I know is struggling with resources. So I think the Government's got some real questions to answer here as to why they're being so heavy handed, especially when these women have been found to have done nothing wrong.
SALLY SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is Senator Anne Ruston, the Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care. On another matter, Senator, the Nine papers are reporting leaked elements of the Coalition's internal review of its election loss this year. It reports the Liberal Party's Federal Executive is considering whether to seal embarrassing or sensitive campaign details that would not be publicly released. In your view, would it be more helpful to the Party to have the review published in full and get it over and done with?
ANNE RUSTON: Well, I’ve obviously not seen the review but I think one of the things that is very important is that we understand that there were a lot of reasons why we did so badly in May this year at the election and we have to be honest with ourselves and front up to the reality of what went wrong at that election. So, look, as I say, I haven't seen the review – I’m not in a position to make any comments having not seen it – but I do think that we have to be very honest with ourselves about what caused such a catastrophic election result so that we can regroup and rebuild, so that we're an effective opposition and alternative government going into the election in 2028.
SALLY SARA: Just finally on the issue of immigration, your colleague Andrew Bragg said the idea that you could blame housing problems on migration, that someone could blame housing problems on migration, is morally wrong. Do you agree with his stance?
ANNE RUSTON: Well, I think Andrew made some very good points in his contribution and the reality is that we are a proud migrant nation and that we have built our country on migration. But the reality is that the Albanese Government has failed Australia because it has had an uncontrolled migration program. It hasn't built enough houses and other essential infrastructure to cater for our growing population. And it is not the fault of migrants. As I said, we're a proud migrant nation, that's how our country was built, but it is the Government's failure in terms of how they've managed the immigration system properly that's causing the problems in Australia at the moment.
SALLY SARA: Senator Anne Ruston, thank you for joining me on Breakfast this morning.
ANNE RUSTON: My pleasure, Sally.
ENDS
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