Transcript: Interview with Peter Fegan, 4BC - 5 September 2025

TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW WITH PETER FEGAN, 4BC

5 September 2025

Topics: Coalition’s victory to secure more home care packages for older Australians, Labor’s home care crisis, aged care reforms

E&OE…………………………………

PETER FEGAN: Senator Anne Ruston is one of the Senators who has been forcing Albo to do more, and I'm pleased to say the Senator joins me on the line. Senator, great to have your company this morning. 

ANNE RUSTON: Thanks Peter, glad to be here. 

PETER FEGAN: Now, I wanted to play you those callers, Senator, to give you an idea, and I know that you speak to people, and I know that you speak to people, your constituents, and I know that you've heard their issues. That's just a taste of what we heard yesterday here on 4BC. 

ANNE RUSTON: Look, and it is the same thing that we are receiving – Calls into my office, people that I've spoken to myself, we're getting emails, we are getting letters. And it's really quite tragic that this government purposely withheld packages that they had promised older Australians, which just exacerbates the situation that we heard from the callers that you heard from yesterday that you played this morning. And quite frankly, in a first-world country like Australia, it's just not good enough, and we need all collectively to do better to make sure that those people that rang you and the hundreds of thousands more of them out there are getting the care that they need when they need it. 

PETER FEGAN: I had Sam Rae on the program yesterday. Sam Rae, of course, for people that don't know, is the Aged Care Minister, the Federal Aged Care Minister. He's a junior minister. To me, Senator, he has been thrown out or hung out to dry here by Anthony Albanese and the other bullies within, because he wasn't involved in any of those negotiations. Actually, I've got some audio, Senator. I want to play this to you. This is when I asked the Minister why he wasn t involved in those negotiations. 

[Audio plays]

SAM RAE: What we've had over the last couple of weeks, really good discussions on a bipartisan basis. We've always had a bipartisan principle in that we approach these particular reforms, because that's how we ensure that they are enduring and that they are meaningful for older people in our community. So, we've tried to approach all these discussions on a bipartisan basis. We reached bipartisan agreement yesterday on the rollout schedule. So, this is the 83,000 packages that we announced last year. 

[Audio ends]

PETER FEGAN: Now, bipartisan, Senator. What I witnessed was kicking and screaming.  Would you agree? 

ANNE RUSTON: I certainly would agree with that. And I was interested to who the Minister was having those hundreds of meetings that he's been having with, because they certainly weren't with me. The only time I've ever spoken or seen the Minister – He bounded into my office last week and basically told me that my amendments to force the release of these packages were somehow going to have a detrimental impact on older Australians. Clearly, I bounced him out of my office and I've never spoken to him since. But no, the Government was forced, kicking and screaming. They voted against the release of the packages at 11 o'clock on Wednesday morning, and by 12 o' clock they'd backflipped. So, I don't think you'd call that a bipartisan approach, I think you would call that kicking and screaming. 

PETER FEGAN: Kicking and screaming! And Senator, Mark Butler had to pick up the mess because they didn't want Sam Rae on the front foot. They wanted Mark Butler because he's more experienced. 

ANNE RUSTON: Well, certainly, we often see Mark Butler rolled out, you know, when negotiations go off the rails. But I have to say, there weren't any negotiations to go off the rails in this instance. But obviously, the most important thing here is that we got the outcome that we wanted and that was the immediate release of these packages and a pipeline for the release of all 83,000 packages, because that's the most important thing, that we're getting these packages out to older Australians. So, I suppose the victory in all this is a victory for, you know, the people like the people that have been calling into your program. Hopefully, they've got a little bit more certainty into the future. But this job's way from done, there's still so much more to do. 

PETER FEGAN: Plenty to do! 

ANNE RUSTON: We found out actually the waitlist that they were telling us was 87,000 people, actually we now find out is 109,000 people. And we also found out there's another 121,000 people who have not even got their assessment yet, let alone been allocated a package that they haven't received. So, we will continue to work every single day to ensure that this government delivers the care that older Australians, quite frankly, deserve. 

PETER FEGAN: But the Government will tell you, oh there's 300,000 people currently in care. Well, there's almost as many still waiting as well and it's not good enough. And just on – Senator, just on this bipartisan approach that we're being told, I think it's a stark warning to the Labor Party that they can't get away with it. Although they dominate the Lower House, that the Senate, the Upper House, will not be putting up with this sort of thing. 

ANNE RUSTON: Absolutely not. And the incredible arrogance that this government would think that they could get away with withholding care from older Australians, the very older Australians that this government itself has assessed as needing care, I think is a very, very stark reminder to everybody in Australia. The Senate is there for a very good reason and that is not to let an arrogant government with a big majority in the Lower House get away with the callous kinds of decisions that we saw they were trying to get away this week. So, as I say, victory for the older Australians because they're now going to get their home care packages. 

PETER FEGAN: Okay, here's the big question for you, Senator, how are you going to fix it? If Australia were to give you a chance in three years and the Coalition is back in power, what are you going to do? You'll be Aged Care Minister, what you going do to fix the issue? It's not an easy one because the cold hard reality is, Senator, and you know this first hand, is that there aren't enough providers, there aren't enough nurses, there aren't enough people who actually provide this sort of care. What are you going do to fix it?

ANNE RUSTON: The biggest challenge the sector has had over the last few years is the fact they've had no certainty. The Government flip-flops around. The sector told us last Friday if they're given certainty and they're given a runway, they can gear up to be able to deliver the kind of care that is needed. But the sector's not going to put on staff when they don't know when the packages are going to be released. They're not going put on staff if they don't know what the decisions of government are going to be regarding, you know, how they're supposed to deliver care. So, we need to certainty into the sector. 

PETER FEGAN: But how do you do that? How do you that? Hire more nurses? I mean, there's got to be a fix. 

ANNE RUSTON: You make decisions like – This is what yesterday's victory in relation to home care was all about. The sector now knows when these packages are going to be delivered. So they can go out and they can recruit. They're saying that there is increased capacity in the sector now, people wanting to work in the sector, through some changes which we have to give credit to the Government for having done in relation to nurses wages and the like. So the people are out there, but the sector can't employ them because they don't know when they're getting the money from the Government in order to deliver the care. So, yesterday provided certainty into the sector, so we just need to make sure the sector is given the certainty in the runway, so they can be prepared. But we also need to make sure – If you give Australians the care they need when they need it, you'll find that they don't need all of this extra care. But you leave an older Australian without the care that they need for a year, their condition is going to deteriorate significantly. 

PETER FEGAN: Oh, 100%. 100%. 

ANNE RUSTON: And by the time they get the care, they're probably gonna end up in a nursing home. They might end up hospital. So it's actually a false premise to suggest if you deliver it sooner, it's actually not more effective. And it's better for the older person. 

PETER FEGAN: Exactly, you've got to be - You've got to be sensible about it. You've gotta say, look, we just can't do this at this stage. You've got to be more sensible. You can't just promise something and then over promise it and go, "actually, no, we can't do it, but we're in power now, we did promise that at the election, but we're okay now, we're safe." But here lies the issue again, Senator, and we'll catch up in a couple of weeks time. Of these 20,000 people, of these new packages, are they just going to go on a wait list? We'll wait and see. And let's catch up in a couple of weeks and we'll get an update. 

ANNE RUSTON: Absolutely. There's a long way to play in this. This is just the start of this aged care reform. 

PETER FEGAN: Yep. Good on you, Senator. Always great to have you on the program. Let's chat soon. You have a great weekend. 

ANNE RUSTON: Thanks, Peter. 

ENDS