Transcript: Interview with Greg Jennett, ABC Afternoon Briefing - 12 September 2024

TRANSCRIPT

Interview with Greg Jennett, ABC Afternoon Briefing

12 September 2024

Topics: The Government’s aged care reforms   

Greg Jennett: As we noted a little earlier, Shadow Health and Aged Care Minister, Anne Ruston was locked into negotiations with the relevant Minister, Anika Wells, to drive it forward to its release and its tabling in the Parliament this afternoon. Anne Ruston joins us now in the studio. Anne, welcome back to the program. Lots of talk about bipartisan agreement on significant bills around this place - Doesn't always get achieved. I don't know if the word congratulations are in order, but were there points in the talks where you thought this wasn't going to be landed?

Anne Ruston: Look, I have to say, the discussions that I've been having, particularly with Mark Butler, have been really constructive. And what we were seeking to do as the Opposition was to make sure that we got concessions that made sure that older Australians who had worked hard all their life and had saved for their retirement were better provided for by this bill. We also wanted to make sure that rural and remote Australia was recognised in the reforms, which it wasn't in the original documentation that we got. We also wanted to make sure that we had a system that was sustainable and provided the dignified care that older Australians need into the future. But I suppose today, I would say I'm as much relieved as anything because we've been calling on this legislation to be introduced now for months and months and months. We're sick of the secrecy that this has been collecting, so very relieved that at last this legislation will be able to be seen by the Australians that are going to be impacted by it.

Greg Jennett: Yep, and the Parliament will do its work. I do have a couple of technical questions to try and aid our understanding about what it might mean for out-of-pocket costs for recipients in a moment. But just trying to clear up exactly what you have or haven't agreed to. Your written statement earlier today said the Opposition agrees not to amend the financial sustainability framework contained in the Bill. But what are you reserving the right to change? Is there anything you're not satisfied with that you would seek to amend as it moves through the Parliament?

Anne Ruston: Well, this is actually a much bigger bill than just the Chapter Four, which refers to the sustainability framework going forward. The Government seemed not prepared to put this legislation in until they had some sort of agreement that that framework would not be tampered with through the process. But there are lots of other things that are contained in it, not the least of which is a move towards a rights based provision of care for older Australians, which was something was a recommendation of the Royal Commission. So we will reserve our right on other aspects. We certainly reserve our right to move amendments. I mean, there's no secret that I have been highly critical of the blunt instrument that saying only registered nurses are able to count towards care minutes. I've been very supportive of enrolled nurses and allied health being able to be included in the care that we're giving older Australians. So, we reserve our right to be able to make amendments and make changes. But we have agreed with what the Government needed apparently for it to get this bill into the Parliament.

Greg Jennett: Now this might well fairly be a question we should put to Anika Wills, but the Government has produced some cameos or examples of people's particular circumstances and what that would mean for out-of-pocket recipient contributions. The examples given range from that 2500 up to about 16,500. Question is, in real life, will there be people paying substantially more than 16,500, the highest example offered here?

Anne Ruston: Well, when we first got the legislation, the Government had actually proposed to remove the caps off home care and only to put caps on residential aged care, which would have meant that older Australians who were unfortunately on their aged care for a really long time into the future wouldn't know how much they were paying. So we fought really hard and said they need to put caps in place so that older Australians have got certainty about what their aged care journey is likely to cost them. So, there is - Obviously right now, one of the most important concessions that we got from the Government is every single Australian who is currently in the system, whether that means they’re on the priority waiting list, whether they're on a home care package or whether they're in residential care, will not pay a cent more than they currently are for the rest of their aged care journey. So that was a very important concession. But obviously going forward, what the Government is seeking to do is to increase the amount that older Australians are paying, for all older Australians, for the sustainability of the system. But these are questions I think you should be putting to the Minister. This is their bill, this is their reform package. What we've done today is say, okay, if this is what you needed to get it out in the public, well we'll give it to you because we wanted it out in the public.

Greg Jennett: Are you clear, though, on what happens when someone reaches the lifetime cap, if they happen to reach the lifetime cap on personal contributions of 130,000? Obviously, the Government would pick up the remainder of costs above that. But are they guaranteed that their care levels, or their support levels, don't drop at that point?

Anne Ruston: Well, I would be horrified to think that would be the case, and for the aged care providers that I certainly know that wouldn't be how they would be approaching it. But the Government has agreed to these caps that we've forced them into accepting. And so therefore, when these caps are reached, then it will be the Government that will be the one that will be providing the funding to keep older Australians in the care, at the same level as they've been assessed to need, which was exactly the same level of care that they were receiving when they were paying a contribution themselves, as to when the Government's paying it all.

Greg Jennett: So there are significant savings to the budget in this package. The Government says it will support for 300,000 more participants over the next ten years. Yet the taskforce had said demand would grow at about 44,000 a year, 400 plus thousand. So there's still a gap there.

Anne Ruston: Well, we'd like to think that this kind of reform package, particularly when the Government is actually calling it demand driven, that home care will be demand driven, that there wouldn't be any shortfall. I mean, it's horrifying to think at the moment that 68,000 Australians as we sit here today have been assessed as needing a home care package and cannot get access to them. Some older Australians who are on the high level of home care packages, level three and level four, are waiting 12 months to get their package. Sometimes these people don't have 12 months to wait for their package. So I think there are questions that rightly need to be asked of the Government and we certainly will be asking them during the committee process.

Greg Jennett: Alright, so from the Coalition's point of view, is it your intention to build on this with an extra set of aged care policies for the next election? Well, given the magnitude of these changes, is that about the end of it for the foreseeable future?

Anne Ruston: Well, we certainly want to continue working with older Australians and with aged care providers and everybody who is involved in the aged care sector to make sure that what we are offering to older Australians is, you know, fit for purpose and providing them with the dignified care that I think they absolutely deserve. Obviously, through the committee process, we will be putting through some ideas that we think will improve this legislation because as I said, we've only agreed to the part of this legislation that was sufficient for the Government to actually get it out there and let Australians see it.

Greg Jennett: And limited by, you know, cost on some of those requests that you will make through amendments or through Senate committee processes. You'd rather unpick the financial sustainability side of it, won't if you, if you're too adventurous on that front?

Anne Ruston: Well, obviously, the sustainability of the aged care system going forward is really, really important because a sustainable aged care system provides the care that we want for older Australians, but it also means that the system will be there to support future generations of Australians as they get older. So that's super important. But we also are a fiscally responsible party and we need to make sure that we are providing, you know, the policies that we put forward within the context of being a responsible government. But there are lots of things that you can do that don't necessarily cost a lot of money to make sure that we are delivering the best possible outcomes we can for older Australians. And that's my job and that's what I'll do.

Greg Jennett: All right. And your interlocutors in this process - You mentioned Mark Butler. Just shed some light on the process for us. Did he lead those talks or did I wrongly attribute it to Anika Wells?

Anne Ruston: Well, Mark is the senior Cabinet Minister when it comes to health and aged care, so I've been working very closely with Mark over recent months to make sure that we landed this, because it is a really important reform. And obviously the Prime Minister and the senior Cabinet Minister were very involved in these discussions.

Greg Jennett: Well, it's out there now for all to see. Anne Ruston will keep across it. No doubt talk further as the Parliament kicks in with these processes from here. Thanks so much for joining us.

ENDS