Transcript: Interview with David Bevan, ABC Adelaide - 19 November 2024

TRANSCRIPT

Interview with David Bevan, ABC Adelaide

19 November 2024

Topics: The Albanese Government’s aged care Bill, removal of caps on home care services  

E&OE…………………………………

David Bevan: Anne Ruston is another South Australian who is intimately involved in the negotiations over the aged care legislation, and she joins us now. Good morning, Anne Ruston, Liberal Senator for South Australia.

Anne Ruston: Hi David, how are you?

David Bevan: I am very, very well. Can you explain to us what is going on? Has the Government backed down on the cap for gardening and cleaning services for people on aged care packages?

Anne Ruston: Yes. Yes, they have, David. And just to be really clear, currently there aren't caps on cleaning and gardening under the existing home care packages that older Australians currently receive. The Government had proposed, as part of the new reform package, that they were going to put in place the caps on gardening and cleaning that you discussed with Hannah. And so the pressure that collectively people like Hannah - and I absolutely commend Hannah for, you know, her absolute advocacy on this issue. And I say to Hannah, well done, you've actually got this change that your advocacy - going on your show, coming all the way to Port Lincoln to give evidence at the inquiry that we held in Port Lincoln - has actually forced the Government's hand to realise that their arbitrary decision to put caps on cleaning and gardening was just ridiculous, because it took choice and control away from the older Australians, which is exactly what this bill is supposed to be doing, is giving older Australians the right to make decisions about how they receive their aged care.

David Bevan: Right, because under this legislation, which had been sent off to a committee, the cap for gardening would have been one hour of gardening a week. Sorry, one hour of cleaning a week and 15 hours of gardening a year?

Anne Ruston: It was eighteen hours of gardening a year, so an hour and a half a month. And, you know, you think of somebody who's living in the Adelaide Hills as a good example, who we need to make sure is ready for summer, for bushfire protection. How on earth is an hour and a half of gardening in a month actually going to deliver the kind of safety that we want for older Australians. And equally, you know, not everybody has the same cleaning requirements. So, we just said this is ridiculous. And, as I say, it was great that we were able to force the Government into the inquiry, because it just showed if you don't consult on legislation and policy, you'll invariably make mistakes. And that's what's happened here. And good on Hannah and all the other older Australians who gave evidence to the committee. They've forced the Government, through the pressure that we have and they have put on the Government, to get the change.

David Bevan: Is this the only purpose of the bill, though? It's quite a big package, isn't it? So what else has got through?

Anne Ruston: The most important thing about this Bill, why the Coalition was really keen to make sure that it got out and got into the Parliament so everybody could have a look at it, is it embeds in the way aged care is delivered the rights of older Australians, and it's changed the way older Australians can demand that they receive their aged care. It's about choice and control back to the older Australian. So that was the main purpose of this bill. But there were a whole heap of other things that are contained in the Bill, and that's why we wanted to get it to an inquiry. And there's so many things that have come out in the inquiry this week. We'll be debating the Bill in the Senate, and I intend to move many, many, many amendments to try and make the Bill better. Because whilst we absolutely support the rights-based central premise of this bill, there's a whole heap of things in this bill we don't think are good, and we're going to do our very best to try and improve it, as we have through the negotiations.

David Bevan: Well, we're going to quickly run out of time. But what are the other things, just the key dot points that you are not happy with, that you want changed by the end of the week?

Anne Ruston: Well, we'd like to make sure that older Australians have a lot of choice about who is the person that might be making decisions on their behalf, if they are unable to make decisions. We want to make sure that - [Interrupted]

David Bevan: I'm sorry, Minister. Your phone's cutting in and out. We could try again.

Anne Ruston: Sorry, most particularly making - Is that better, David?

David Bevan: Yeah, that's much better.

Anne Ruston: Yeah. Yeah. Most particularly to make sure that, you know, when older Australians are unable to make decisions on their behalf, that the person who gets to make those decisions on their behalf is the person that they want, and those decisions are made in the best interests of that person. Making sure that hardship provisions are contained in the Bill, because we know sometimes older Australians get to a stage where they don't have the wherewithal to be able to pay some of the things that they need in their aged care. So, making sure that hardship is something that is really clearly defined in the Act. Making sure all the definitions in the Act are actually clear, because if you read this act, you've got no idea sometimes what they mean. But also to make sure we have further and ongoing scrutiny, because we've only seen the Bill. There's a whole heap of rules that sit behind this bill that we haven't seen yet, and we're demanding that older Australians can continue to have their say, just like Hannah has, in making sure that we scrutinise these rules as well.

David Bevan: Does the Bill also contain measures to get more money out of people towards their contributions, towards their own aged care? That is, tampering with the rules regarding refundable accommodation deposits and things like that. That's all in there as well?

Anne Ruston: There's a number of changes in relation to many, many things, but one of the things that we demanded, before we'd even sit down and talk to this government, was every person in Australia who was on their aged care journey, so they might just even only be on the priority waiting list, would be grandfathered. So, they will have no changes to their financial arrangements. So, every person who's listening to this show who's got a home care package or is even waiting for a home care package, right the way through their journey, if it meant home care and into residential care, there will be no change to the financial arrangements that they will be asked to contribute. This is about looking into the future to make sure we've got a sustainable sector.

David Bevan: But the future is quite a scary place, isn't it. I mean, Polly just sent us a text saying cost per residential aged care bed has risen from $550,000 to $750,000 as of January 2025. Can you follow this up, please? Disgusting, says Polly. How on earth can ordinary people afford $750,000 for a bed in an aged care home?

Anne Ruston: Okay, look, to be clear, the $750,000 that she is referring to is the maximum amount that an aged care provider can charge.

David Bevan: One would think so.

Anne Ruston: Well, to be fair, David, I've been into some aged care homes, particularly in places like Sydney and Melbourne, and I have to say they're quite extraordinary and people with the means are quite happy to pay for them. But I take the point. We have to make sure that we have got accessible aged care. That's why there is a supplement for people who are supported, to make sure that older Australians that haven't got the wherewithal to be able to pay this are able to be supported by the taxpayer. But its - [Interrupted]

David Bevan: But, but, but all this is going to be sorted out this week. It's going to pass this week?

Anne Ruston: Well, this is the point, David. There is so much more information the Government has not provided to older Australians, which we are going to demand that we continue to have inquiries [into], so that older Australians can continue to have their say. Because we've seen what's happened just with the inquiry on the main Bill. We want to have inquiries on all of the extra pieces of subordinate legislation that are the rules. That's where the rubber hits the road, where the details are. And we will continue to fight for that. So, at the end of this week, what we want to say to older Australians is you will continue to be able to have your say on what you want.

David Bevan: Senator Anne Ruston, thank you very much for your time.

ENDS