Transcript: Interview with Hamish Macdonald, ABC Sydney Mornings - 22 October 2025

TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW WITH HAMISH MACDONALD, ABC SYDNEY MORNINGS

22 October 2025

Topics: aged care wait list blowout, new Support at Home program, the Prime Minister’s meeting with President Trump, Kevin Rudd

E&OE…………………………………

HAMISH MACDONALD: Well, the aged care system is undergoing quite a transformation this week and next, with the new Support at Home program starting on the first of November. Interested to hear from you on this this morning. Are you feeling prepared for all of the changes that are on the way? Do you know what the changes are? Do you know how you're going to interact with the aged care system? Do you feel like you're completely across all of this? 1-300-222-702 is the number. Some recent data that's emerged during Senate estimates shows that the wait list for home care packages has actually grown to more than 121,000 people. Anne Ruston is the Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care. Good morning to you. 

ANNE RUSTON: Good morning. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: How much has this total figure grown by? 

ANNE RUSTON: Well, over the last just over two years, it has grown from 28,000 people waiting on the wait list for an average of somewhere between one and three months. As we sit here today, Hamish, it is over 120,000 people waiting on average 10 months and some people waiting between 15 and 18 months to get a home care package. So it has been an incredibly serious blowout, not just in wait list but in wait times over the last two or so years. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: And so, when you say waiting, are they waiting to be assessed or they've been assessed and they're waiting for the package? 

ANNE RUSTON: This is only the people that have been assessed as needing a level of care and have not received that level of care. We know there's nearly another 120,000 people who are waiting to get assessed for the care. So combined, we're talking nearly 240,000 Australians, older Australians, as we sit here today either are not getting the care they are assessed as needing or are waiting to be assessed because quite clearly they need the care, otherwise they wouldn't be on an assessment waiting list. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: And so, what's the Government said about how quickly those packages will be handed out once we switch over to the new system from the first of November? 

ANNE RUSTON: Well, the most distressing thing that we found out during estimates was the fact that the Government had not released one new home care package between the 1st of July and the 30th of September, which means that there was, the wait list had to blow out because obviously older Australians are coming onto that wait list during that period of time. We forced them during the passage of a bill earlier, a couple of months ago, to say that they would release 83,000 home care packages between the day of that bill and the 30th of June 2026, and 20,000 of them had to be released in the last two months. As we sit here today, we are unaware of whether those packages have even been released. So we will continue to put pressure on the Government, because it's unacceptable that older Australians don't have the care they've been assessed as needing. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: But we have heard examples since that time of people receiving the packages that they'd already been allocated. So there there must have been some delivered. Do you accept that? 

ANNE RUSTON: The only packages that have been delivered, Hamish, over that period of time were packages that come back onto the market because older Australians no longer need them. They may be going into care or sadly may have passed away. They are the only packages that the Government recycled into the system over that three-month period. That is completely unacceptable. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: From the first of November, the new scheme will mean that there are - well, that there are means testing arrangements in place, that there'll be co payments, including by some pensioners, for these sorts of supports at home. Is that, as you understand it, the reason why there are all of these hold ups? Because the Government would prefer people to be receiving these packages under the new arrangements? 

ANNE RUSTON: I don't know the reason why the Government chose actively to withhold care that older Australians needed, but certainly there will be some significant changes that come into place on the 1st of November. One of the things that we did when that act or that bill went through the House was to make sure anybody who was already in the system was grandfathered, so their arrangements will not be changed. So anybody who's already in the system will know that they won't face these changes. But the most important thing for your listeners who are concerned about this, if they are on an aged care package, please contact your provider and talk to them so that you can get some certainty about what the 1st of November means for you. Because we're very concerned that there hasn't been a strong information campaign around the changes and that older Australians will be left with uncertainty on the 1st of November. So we would certainly be encouraging people to contact either the Department of Health and Aged Care, or contact your provider, or speak to your nursing home that you're on the wait list for, to make sure that you understand what the changes on the 1st of November may mean to you. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: 1300 222 702 is the number. Do you have questions about the way this new scheme will be applied? Does it affect you? Let us know. We'll try and get answers for you. 1300 222 702. Senator Anne Ruston is the Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care. Just turning to the Prime Minister's trip to Washington this week, Sussan Ley's been pretty critical of Kevin Rudd. She says his job is untenable as ambassador. Do you agree with her? 

ANNE RUSTON: Well, obviously, it's a risky move to keep somebody in place who Donald Trump, by his own words, said doesn't know and doesn't like him. But the most important thing is that we actually establish and maintain this incredibly strong relationship with the US, because the US-Australia Alliance is probably what's one of the strongest, if not the strongest and most important relationship that we hold on the international stage. And a stronger relationship with the US also provides us with a stronger and safer Australia in our region. So, this relationship couldn't be more important. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: But it does appear that Donald Trump says all is forgiven. Is it time for the Coalition to move on with regards to Kevin Rudd? Are you sort of beating a dead horse here? 

ANNE RUSTON: Look, we will judge what happens of the meeting of the last couple of days by the outcomes and not just by the photo opportunities. But as I said, Hamish, this is so, so important for us, our relationship, and so - [interrupted]. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: I can sort of hear your hesitation in repeating the calls for him to go. I mean, do you think that the Coalition is sort of onto a winning argument here saying Kevin Rudd's done? 

ANNE RUSTON: Well, I I think you've only got to look to the comments that the President has made in relation to Mr Rudd. But look, the Prime Minister has backed him in, and we need to - and it's the Prime Minister's call. This is the Prime Minister's captain's call to put Mr Rudd in as the ambassador, but one thing that - [interrupted]. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: I was just reading the papers today. It sounds like a lot of his work did lead to elements of this meeting going well, whether it's the AUKUS components or the the critical minerals, whether it's spruiking the dropping of the beef import ban, that he has been at least performing the duties of ambassador reasonably well. I'm just wondering whether the Coalition's looking for a problem rather than listening. 

ANNE RUSTON: Well, the one thing we're not looking for is a problem with the US, which is why we have always been so strong about the importance of the relationship between Australia and the US, and anything that may undermine that is obviously something of concern to us. But, looking forward - [interrupted]. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: And has Kevin Rudd done anything that undermines it as ambassador? 

ANNE RUSTON: Well, certainly the comments of the President were concerning, I think, and should have been concerning to all Australians, that he didn't like him and he didn't know him. But as I said, the most important thing is that this is not about one person. The most important thing is about making sure our relationship with the US is solid going forward. This is, at last after a year, is a good start that the Prime Minister's actually managed to get a meeting with the President and that our relationship, from the comments that have been made, with the US is on a strong footing going forward. That is the most important thing for Australia. 

HAMISH MACDONALD: Anne Ruston. Good to talk as always. Thank you very much. 

ENDS